From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/27/2005 9:08:26 AM | Message Detail
It is quite a while since I played SF so I forgot alot of things. I read a lot of summaries but these questions remain.
The Agency:
What was the ultimate goal of the Agency? So far I understand it is to gain dirty money from the SF virus. So they started to work together with Rhoemer. But why sending Gabe Logan to stop them in SF1?
Was it so that Gabe found how the virus works so the Agency has the virus for themselves? Markinson wanted to stop the misile in the final level of SF1, but for what reason?
Then after that, why were Gabe and Lian branded traitors? Was that done by rumors or did Gabe and Lian really go against the Agency?
Then in SF2 at the Mc Kenzie Airbase, Phagan was still alive and then killed by Morgan (I read that from Josh's FAQ)??? That is really new.
Then after Gabe killed all Agency leaders except Vincent Hadden.. You discover that Vincent Hadden planned to use Gabe to kill the leaders so he could become president...
Well tell me one thing. Nobody expected Gabe to win against the Agency. A better explanation would be that after all leaders were killed, that he could rise in power and become president.
But then in SF3, what's there to gain from testimony? Is Gabe working again for the Agency? And now Gabe has to stop the terrorists who the Agency sold the virus to?
Now back to SF1.. Pharcom:
Phagan is their leader and made the virus the story is all about. Was Pharcom always evil? I also don't get, how did Rhoemer's gang get the virus if Pharcom created it?
Then Aramov, what is her objective?
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/27/2005 9:43:03 AM | Message Detail
Continued:
Aramov she is first working as a mercenary for Rhoemer. Then it seems she switches sides but doesn't. In stead she uses Gabe and Lian to stop the virus. I just don't get why..
Then Aramov works for the agency as a spy. Then in SF3 she kills Vicent Haddan. Then in SF:OS you see she's working for that terrirists organisation I forgot the name of. So she was using Rhoemer, the agency all along for that organisation? If so, what was to gain from that?
The Data Discs, what's so important that Gabe wants to get them?
There are more things I don't get but I'll stop here for now
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/27/2005 2:09:23 PM | Message Detail
I'll try to answer some of your questions the best I can. SF has a very twisted plot, sometimes hard to fallow and a lot of details are easily lost. We had a similar discussion on my boards with people and we tried to bring some light on all these elements.
The new elements found in The Omega Strain (I don't know if you had the chance to play it) really bring a new perspective through which all the plot must be analyzed.
The Agency:
You're mostly right. The Agency, although it may have been created for brighter purposes, became the tools of evil people who sought the virus. Those people are the one we know : Hadden, Markinson and Benton mainly. They did not had the virus in their hands, nor did they had approached Rhoemer when Gabe did his first mission in Costa Rica. I guess if Gabe had eliminated Rhoemer early on, it would have been even easier for them to get their hands on the virus. Markinson tells Gabe that he made some deal with Rhoemer while he was in Costa Rica. But still, Rhoemer had an agenda of his own, and I'm sure a viral outbreak in Washington was not in the plan of the Agency leaders. The same thing applied to the missile, where Markinson felt he had to interfere himself. And remember the opening cutscene in SF1, where Markinson and Benton are talking, they say something like : "-What do we do with Logan? -Nothing. We will wait and see what he can discover." So Logan was conducting his investigation on Rhoemer's group since his Costa Rica mission and Markinson couldn't reveal his real intentions to him, otherwise Logan could have tried to stop him. He instead tried to lure him in conducting some either suicidal missions, or missions with hidden purposes (like killing the test subjects in Rhoemer's Stronghold).
Gabe didn't found how the virus work, at least not in SF1 yet. What Markinson tells Logan about the virus just before in the cutscene right before the Rhoemer's Stronghold mission is information gathered from the WHO (see the logo in the sheet Markinson is holding). Maybe Markinson had this information for a long time already when he showed it to Logan. So that's not what Gabe was used for in SF1, at least I don't think (I might be wrong, of course). As for the missile, I already answered in the previous paragraph. Rhoemer wasn't fallowing any orders from the Agency and he had plans of his own, which did not fall under the will of the conspiracy leaders.
Josh is right in his FAQ. Morgan does kill Phagan in McKenzie Airbase in SF2. Actually, Phagan was already brain dead, thanks to Mara's bullet. Doctor Elsa Weissinger was using Phagan's body to collect data and plasma (I think she infected him with the virus, or maybe he already had been while being captive in Rhoemer's stronghold, as Lian had been). But Morgan had orders to clean up anything related to Phagan, including Phagan himself! So he unplugged him.
I'm not quite sure that Hadden used Gabe in order to eliminate leaders that could get in his way to become President. Actually, he did use Gabe for similar reasons. Any leaders that were eliminated by Gabe were not truly in Hadden's way. But what Hadden got from all this, was a crisis situation. And he intended to use this situation to become President, probably taking advantage of the weakness of the actual President who had to face this crisis.
The gain that Hadden get from all that testimony stuff is explained in the SF3 opening video. Hadden tells Mara exactly what he's planning for Gabe: he needs someone to blame.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/27/2005 2:42:41 PM | Message Detail
Pharcom:
We had long discussions about it, and this is probably where the story gets the most confusing. Pharcom is a pharmaceutical company founded by Phagan himself. At the time, it was known as Wyn Industries. The creation of the virus itself is explained in The Omega Strain. The father of Syphon Filter is a man named Lucas Kaufmann who was working for Wyn Industries. It is said in SF3 that Pharcom was affiliated to the Agency (Mujari gave them the samples he had gotten from his mission in the Pugari Mines). Then, how and why did Phagan make a deal or anything with Rhoemer's organization? My best guess is that Phagan needed Rhoemer (who had means and a small army under his command) in order to produce the virus. After all, he had all those installations in Costa Rica set for the development of the virus. On the other side, Rhoemer got many advantages from Pharcom. First, he had a well established pharmaceutical company to help him with the virus and secondly, he could use the Pharcom Exposition Center to ship crates of infected bodies all over the world (what Gabe discovers in Rhoemer's Stronghold). Museum have licences allowing them to ship artifacts, bypassing custom laws and inspections.
Mara:
If you've played TOS, the answer isn't that complex. Actually, Mara is working for Mihai Niculescu, a rich banker from Switzerland who happens to be the shadow behind the entire virus conspiracy. And you're right, she had infiltrated both Rhoemer's organization and the Agency for Niculescu, so that she could use them to fulfill his deeds. Now, you have to think of all her actions as means to satisfy Niculescu's will. If she helped Gabe and Lian to stop Rhoemer, it is because his idea of a missile launch was not part of Niculescu's plan. Than she helped to free the real Gregorov in SF2 because Niculescu needed the encryption discs he had (we'll talk of those discs later). And she killed Hadden in SF3 because Niculescu wanted to clean up the old Agency mess that was now bringing him more troubles than anything else (this is said in one of the Zeus files in SF:TOS). Niculescu wanted at all cost to remain hidden. So Mara was his arm to accomplish his plans. The crisis situation was profitable to him because he could sell the virus to different organizations. Gabe says something about Niculescu in a Zeus file in SF:TOS, something that goes like: "Niculescu is the kind of man who would cause a war and sell weapons to both sides."
Come to think of it, maybe he is the one who arranged something between Phagan and Rhoemer, so that he could get the virus from Pharcom. I remember having read somewhere in TOS that Niculescu was in relation with Rhoemer...
The Data Discs:
These discs contain the information about the virus and its genetic structure. Gabe needs those discs in order to trade them to the Agency for a vaccine for Lian. Now what he got from Kazakhstan, which he had to get back from the crash site in SF2, was the encrypted data discs. They were worthless without the encryption code. That is what he went to gat back at the Pharcom Expo Center. Lian had learned from Holman that the Agency was planning something there. Gabe made the deduction that the Agency was after the same discs than him (if they could get the encryption discs before Logan, his discs would become useless for any trade), and that Phagan probably had hidden them in the museum. But the realize that they only had got half ot the data discs. They than remember Gregorov's appearance in Kazakhstan who was indeed there to get the same discs than Logan. So Lian contacts him, and you know the rest.
Well, I hope it does answer at least some of your interrogations. I'll be glad to share other interpretations with you if you have other things you want to discuss.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/27/2005 4:28:06 PM | Message Detail
Thanks for taking all the time to type that, I'll read it all tomorrow.
I'll try to answer some of your questions the best I can. SF has a very twisted plot, sometimes hard to fallow and a lot of details are easily lost.
That's why SF is so interesting
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/27/2005 10:09:17 PM | Message Detail
You damn right!
I like this kind of exercise. It tests my knowledge and understanding of the game. Sometime it makes me realize that some details had slipped my mind.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/28/2005 1:18:26 AM | Message Detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/28/2005 1:34:19 AM | Message Detail
Heh, I just love reading long stories about SF. I also will read all data files from SF:TOS again soon.
Here are some other questions:
Why does Gabe and co. actually answer all these questions from Vincent Hadden? What benefits did Logan have?
Also didn't Hadden already blame Logan and co. from the start of SF2?
Don't you love all lies from the Agency?
The game makers planted some hidden sense of humor in the series
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/28/2005 1:59:09 PM | Message Detail
I've got an another question,
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/accueil/ why is the only SF fansite French
((((((? I can only say Je t'eme or something it's supposed be I love you
You will get more people there if you make that all English
:D:D:D
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/28/2005 4:00:13 PM | Message Detail
lol yeah, I though of doing a translated section... But I didn't have the time back then and I'm not sure I would have now. Anyway, this site was first created because there was a lack of French sites about this game. All fansites I knew were English only. Anyway... I still think of creating an English section to my website... we'll see.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/28/2005 4:05:09 PM | Message Detail
And to (try to) answer your last questions:
I think first of all that Gabe and co. didn't really have much of a choice. Not testifying would really give substance to the story issued by the Agency about them being fugitives and terrorists. But more important, it allowed Gabe and co. to buy some time, while Teresa was conducting her operation. She could fallow Mara and carry on her investigation on Hadden himself while he was busy with the hearings.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/29/2005 1:46:29 AM | Message Detail
I think I need to convince you more to make it also English
The site looks so great, it really gives me a warm SF feeling
At least make an English section on the forum. One warning... I will love you forever if you do
:P:P
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/29/2005 2:04:39 PM | Message Detail
That's a warning I'll take seriously... lol
The thing is I'm not sure I would get a lot more visitors. So I don't know if all the efforts I'd have to spend translating the whole site would worth it. Meanwhile, if it can make you happy, I could do a small section for English conversation... The thing is that we'd probably be just the two of us there!
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/30/2005 1:05:36 AM | Message Detail
True and to be honest.. When I have beaten all SFs, I think that I'll gone for months till I play SF again. But I think making an English section wouldn't hurt. You never know unles you try. And your French friends can probably talk English too.
I don't see much trouble with translating the site, even I can guess what's in the Equipment Section, Bio, Sondages (Seems like polls), Liens (Are probably sponsors).
The content of 'Test' (reviews?) is probably the only thing that takes a lot of time. The Solution Complète are probably French FAQs which can be kept the same.
A good start would be a choice between French and English, if you choose English you will be lead directly to the english forum section. So new visitors don't think 'Ah this is a French site *clicks the cross button*'
If you want help then I'll glady do it.
From: Duran Divine Dragon | Posted: 12/30/2005 9:52:47 AM | Message Detail
A few other questions:
Did Lian call the real of fake Gregorov? Guessing that Aramov is there too I think it's the fake one. So was the fake Gregorov searching for the Data Discs? I think not because only the real Gregorov knows the location.
From what group are those men from Aramov in Lian's mission in the Disco and Aljir prosin (White, green) ? Is that from Niculescu's group?
Why was Gregorov prisoned? Was it for the Data Discs?
Then in SF3 you are ordered to kill Shi-Hao. But somehow the JRA knew Gabe would came. Why did they let Shi-Hao be killed? In that conversation that Lian patches through it seemed they had some fight (The text went away too fast to read.) so they let him be killed on purpose?
I also thought not the entire Agency might be evil since Weisinger mentions to the scientist in the Bio Lab that it can prevent cancer cells to produce. What do you think?
From: Gabe_Logan2 | Posted: 12/30/2005 1:10:08 PM | Message Detail
I think it is made clear that Lian calls the fake Gregorov. As you noticed yourself, Aramov's presence tells us enough. Actually, the fake Gregorov was a member of the Agency (maybe some kind of mercenary). Knowing that, his role in Moscow probably was to look for the remaining data disc that the real Gregorov had hidden. And he was also to take care of Lian (perhaps not lethally, but at least he was there to lure her out so that she could be captured). Now the real question is why did he run from Aramov? Aren't they supposed to be together? Well, I haven't fully understood this one yet, but my guess would be that maybe the fake Gregorov had seen through the double role Aramov was playing (as a double agent working for Niculescu) and that he didn't want things to go that far. Or, another bet would be that the fake Gregorov had messed up at the club and that Aramov was somehow mad at him (remember how she tells him to get in her car). So he could have simply been afraid of the consequences of his failure, knowing well how unforgiving Mara was.
I think the men you fight in Club 32 are the fake Gregorov's bodyguards. Probably mercenaries too. As for the guys in Aljir, they're simply prison guards.
I'm not sure why Gregorov was make prisoner, nor do I know how he was captured or arrested. Maybe the Agency sent him away? One sure thing, the Aljir prison is a non-official institution so Gregorov's capture was to remain secret (if not, the impostor would have been useless).
I'd have to check back the Fukushima Hotel level, because all this is a little confused in my mind right now. Perhaps the JRA was hoping to stop Logan before he could kill Shi-Hao?
Weissinger wasn't indeed as evil as many of the Agency leaders. After all, she's on our side in TOS. Besides, some of her deposition in TOS is quite revealing regarding her involvement in the virus development. According to her, she was driven by good intentions when she first joined Kaufmann at Wyn Industries. She didn't think her research would ever lead to the creation of one of the deadliest weapons ever made. She had been lured by Kaufmann who had been his mentor (if I remember well) through university. And when he asked her to join him, she couldn't refuse. Despite everything, she kept believing that what she was doing was good or would have positive repercussions. But she started realize that something was wrong (wasn't it obvious anyway!) I think around the time she was in Australia. Silver had been sent to eliminate the scientist crew and she decided to help Lian (who was in fact her only chance of survival, given the circumstances). So when she talks about the virus being a possible cure against cancer cells, she was right in the middle of her state of denial, where she wanted to believe that the "virus" she had helped to create was doing more good than harm.
---
Gabe Logan
http://syphonfilter.webdynamit.net/
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